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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;HUMANS TAKE RISKS BECAUSE THAT&#8217;S WHAT WE DO&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.vancityallie.com/2009/01/06/humans-take-risks-because-thats-what-we-do/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.vancityallie.com/2009/01/06/humans-take-risks-because-thats-what-we-do/</link>
	<description>(snowboarding blog / surfing blog / Vancouver blog / Canucks blog / photography blog)</description>
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		<title>By: max</title>
		<link>http://www.vancityallie.com/2009/01/06/humans-take-risks-because-thats-what-we-do/comment-page-1/#comment-1361</link>
		<dc:creator>max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vancityallie.com/?p=268#comment-1361</guid>
		<description>http://archives.cbc.ca/environment/natural_disasters/topics/1483/

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://archives.cbc.ca/environment/natural_disasters/topics/1483/" rel="nofollow">http://archives.cbc.ca/environment/natural_disasters/topics/1483/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tawcan</title>
		<link>http://www.vancityallie.com/2009/01/06/humans-take-risks-because-thats-what-we-do/comment-page-1/#comment-1272</link>
		<dc:creator>Tawcan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 23:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vancityallie.com/?p=268#comment-1272</guid>
		<description>Just read a news article that I&#039;d like to share with everyone who&#039;s following on this topic:

http://www.canada.com/northshorenews/news/story.html?id=0fff5e36-5893-48d1-b46e-5a73afa81591

Hopefully this will make it to the TV news so the general public understands that it&#039;s ok to call for rescue when he/she needs one.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just read a news article that I&#8217;d like to share with everyone who&#8217;s following on this topic:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.canada.com/northshorenews/news/story.html?id=0fff5e36-5893-48d1-b46e-5a73afa81591" rel="nofollow">http://www.canada.com/northshorenews/news/story.html?id=0fff5e36-5893-48d1-b46e-5a73afa81591</a></p>
<p>Hopefully this will make it to the TV news so the general public understands that it&#8217;s ok to call for rescue when he/she needs one.</p>
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		<title>By: max</title>
		<link>http://www.vancityallie.com/2009/01/06/humans-take-risks-because-thats-what-we-do/comment-page-1/#comment-1271</link>
		<dc:creator>max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vancityallie.com/?p=268#comment-1271</guid>
		<description>Sorry, I&#039;d also like to say that this isn&#039;t just an issue with skiiers and snowboarders, it applies to climbers, ice climbers, mountaineers, snomobilers, hikers, snowshoers, hunters, fishermen... pretty much anyone that likes to get out there. The mountain community has a lot of user groups and every individual connects to these areas for different reasons. It&#039;s a more complex problem than just figuring out how to get snowboarders to stop ducking ropes... that&#039;s about all the input I have on the issue.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, I&#8217;d also like to say that this isn&#8217;t just an issue with skiiers and snowboarders, it applies to climbers, ice climbers, mountaineers, snomobilers, hikers, snowshoers, hunters, fishermen&#8230; pretty much anyone that likes to get out there. The mountain community has a lot of user groups and every individual connects to these areas for different reasons. It&#8217;s a more complex problem than just figuring out how to get snowboarders to stop ducking ropes&#8230; that&#8217;s about all the input I have on the issue.</p>
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		<title>By: max</title>
		<link>http://www.vancityallie.com/2009/01/06/humans-take-risks-because-thats-what-we-do/comment-page-1/#comment-1270</link>
		<dc:creator>max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vancityallie.com/?p=268#comment-1270</guid>
		<description>All be it, things have been blown out of proportion by the media, and is every year when people die. It does however draw attention to the issue, which I believe is important even if it is overblown because it at least ignites important debate on mountain safety.

Again, fines and payment for rescue aren&#039;t likely to happen. Saving a life in the mountains far outweighs any bills associated with the rescue. Rescue agencies won&#039;t let it happen. Even in Alberta and National Parks, where the public safety programs are government funded, there is never a charge for any rescue or recovery for the very reasons stated: nobody should ever feel like they are going to be penalized when they require a rescue and nobody should ever have to think twice about making the call for resucue. Accidents happen.

It is going to be up to the resorts as to how people are punished for breaking their rules. This won&#039;t/ can&#039;t be monetary, they don&#039;t have the authority to do this, so you&#039;re likely to lose your pass or they will refuse service, which they do have the right to do. So keep that in mind while a guest at a resort and you consider breaking their rules. They are going to do what they need to do to prevent injuries, bad press, and perform due dilligence and avoid civil action against the resort.

Backcountry closures and restrictions already happen on Crown land for safety issues, conservation issues, or land zoning regulations. They will continue to happen and penalties for this can already result in fines, equipment seisures, or court appearances. It&#039;s been this way for years. So again, if you decide to break the rules on Crown land (depending on the jurisdiction), be prepared for the consequence. Blanket backcountry closures to Crown land aren&#039;t likely to happen though. As I mentioned before, the logistics of patrolling that much land, split between too many regulatory agencies, just isn&#039;t possible so the government won&#039;t do it. Seeing as the land is managed as a public trust for the citizens of the province I believe that the government would not be able to successfuly do this even if they wanted to, the will isn&#039;t there to do it and there would be too much public backlash.

Every year without fail this same thing happens. I in no way advocate payment for rescue; however, I would like to see some sort of a system where people are more accountable to the mounain community when things happen. There is assumed risk to all outdoor persuits and it is time for the growing mountain culture to shift and recognise this. Education, experience, preparedness, and prevention should be a bigger topic than the role and cost of search and rescue. SAR is a last result, rescues take a minimum of an hour and often can far exceed this, far too late to save a burried or severely injured person. It is up to individuals to be safe and nobody else. Often people can&#039;t afford the training or equipment or they simply don&#039;t know where to get it. A backcountry insurance system doesn&#039;t need to be viewed as a penalty or restriction to the use of the backcountry, it can be used to better fund search and rescue, or create programs to better coordinate or connect users with SAR agencies in the form of check in systems, equipment loans, or more broad reaching/subsidised training that is supported by the actual users themselves. A system like that may be far fetched though, but something needs to be done to shift the culture and make people safe even if they currently refuse to do it on their own. 

I think viewing the actions/reactions taken be resorts or governments over this issue as an infringement on our rights and freedoms isn&#039;t constructive and more cohesive solutions should be formed through cooperation and consultation with all stakeholders involved. I very strongly believe that the places we love are not a right. Just because we can see it doesn&#039;t mean we can do it, we need to have a better apprecitation and respect for these places than that. We have the great privilage to be able to connect with and enojoy these places. With that users should take the responsibility and provide the stewardship to these places that they deserve and to use them in a safe and suitable manner.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All be it, things have been blown out of proportion by the media, and is every year when people die. It does however draw attention to the issue, which I believe is important even if it is overblown because it at least ignites important debate on mountain safety.</p>
<p>Again, fines and payment for rescue aren&#8217;t likely to happen. Saving a life in the mountains far outweighs any bills associated with the rescue. Rescue agencies won&#8217;t let it happen. Even in Alberta and National Parks, where the public safety programs are government funded, there is never a charge for any rescue or recovery for the very reasons stated: nobody should ever feel like they are going to be penalized when they require a rescue and nobody should ever have to think twice about making the call for resucue. Accidents happen.</p>
<p>It is going to be up to the resorts as to how people are punished for breaking their rules. This won&#8217;t/ can&#8217;t be monetary, they don&#8217;t have the authority to do this, so you&#8217;re likely to lose your pass or they will refuse service, which they do have the right to do. So keep that in mind while a guest at a resort and you consider breaking their rules. They are going to do what they need to do to prevent injuries, bad press, and perform due dilligence and avoid civil action against the resort.</p>
<p>Backcountry closures and restrictions already happen on Crown land for safety issues, conservation issues, or land zoning regulations. They will continue to happen and penalties for this can already result in fines, equipment seisures, or court appearances. It&#8217;s been this way for years. So again, if you decide to break the rules on Crown land (depending on the jurisdiction), be prepared for the consequence. Blanket backcountry closures to Crown land aren&#8217;t likely to happen though. As I mentioned before, the logistics of patrolling that much land, split between too many regulatory agencies, just isn&#8217;t possible so the government won&#8217;t do it. Seeing as the land is managed as a public trust for the citizens of the province I believe that the government would not be able to successfuly do this even if they wanted to, the will isn&#8217;t there to do it and there would be too much public backlash.</p>
<p>Every year without fail this same thing happens. I in no way advocate payment for rescue; however, I would like to see some sort of a system where people are more accountable to the mounain community when things happen. There is assumed risk to all outdoor persuits and it is time for the growing mountain culture to shift and recognise this. Education, experience, preparedness, and prevention should be a bigger topic than the role and cost of search and rescue. SAR is a last result, rescues take a minimum of an hour and often can far exceed this, far too late to save a burried or severely injured person. It is up to individuals to be safe and nobody else. Often people can&#8217;t afford the training or equipment or they simply don&#8217;t know where to get it. A backcountry insurance system doesn&#8217;t need to be viewed as a penalty or restriction to the use of the backcountry, it can be used to better fund search and rescue, or create programs to better coordinate or connect users with SAR agencies in the form of check in systems, equipment loans, or more broad reaching/subsidised training that is supported by the actual users themselves. A system like that may be far fetched though, but something needs to be done to shift the culture and make people safe even if they currently refuse to do it on their own. </p>
<p>I think viewing the actions/reactions taken be resorts or governments over this issue as an infringement on our rights and freedoms isn&#8217;t constructive and more cohesive solutions should be formed through cooperation and consultation with all stakeholders involved. I very strongly believe that the places we love are not a right. Just because we can see it doesn&#8217;t mean we can do it, we need to have a better apprecitation and respect for these places than that. We have the great privilage to be able to connect with and enojoy these places. With that users should take the responsibility and provide the stewardship to these places that they deserve and to use them in a safe and suitable manner.</p>
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		<title>By: David Hayes</title>
		<link>http://www.vancityallie.com/2009/01/06/humans-take-risks-because-thats-what-we-do/comment-page-1/#comment-1269</link>
		<dc:creator>David Hayes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vancityallie.com/?p=268#comment-1269</guid>
		<description>Mike Works: That is a really good question.
For me it&#039;s about many things
1. Riding fresh untracked snow
2. Getting away from the hustle and bustle of the resort
3. The sense of achievment from pushing myself to explore the mountains without (as much) use of machines.

I enjoy reaching the top of something under my own power and the anticipation of the amazing turns I&#039;ve just earnt. I&#039;m pretty sure there are as many reasons as there are people who enjoy the backcountry

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike Works: That is a really good question.<br />
For me it&#8217;s about many things<br />
1. Riding fresh untracked snow<br />
2. Getting away from the hustle and bustle of the resort<br />
3. The sense of achievment from pushing myself to explore the mountains without (as much) use of machines.</p>
<p>I enjoy reaching the top of something under my own power and the anticipation of the amazing turns I&#8217;ve just earnt. I&#8217;m pretty sure there are as many reasons as there are people who enjoy the backcountry</p>
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		<title>By: Vancity Allie</title>
		<link>http://www.vancityallie.com/2009/01/06/humans-take-risks-because-thats-what-we-do/comment-page-1/#comment-1268</link>
		<dc:creator>Vancity Allie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vancityallie.com/?p=268#comment-1268</guid>
		<description>Fresh, fresh powder my dear sir :) 

Also terrain that is challenging, the feeling of exploration, no one else around, and natural obstacles (pillow lines, cliffs etc) that may not be present on ski resorts.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fresh, fresh powder my dear sir <img src='http://www.vancityallie.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>Also terrain that is challenging, the feeling of exploration, no one else around, and natural obstacles (pillow lines, cliffs etc) that may not be present on ski resorts.</p>
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		<title>By: mike works</title>
		<link>http://www.vancityallie.com/2009/01/06/humans-take-risks-because-thats-what-we-do/comment-page-1/#comment-1267</link>
		<dc:creator>mike works</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vancityallie.com/?p=268#comment-1267</guid>
		<description>as someone who doesn&#039;t ski or snowboard at all, what are the advantages of going to these out of bounds areas (aside from less human traffic)?

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as someone who doesn&#8217;t ski or snowboard at all, what are the advantages of going to these out of bounds areas (aside from less human traffic)?</p>
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		<title>By: Davin</title>
		<link>http://www.vancityallie.com/2009/01/06/humans-take-risks-because-thats-what-we-do/comment-page-1/#comment-1264</link>
		<dc:creator>Davin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:08:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vancityallie.com/?p=268#comment-1264</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with you here, I think banning is over the top.  Education and responsibility is the answer.  I don&#039;t think people should have to pay for their own search and rescue though - I don&#039;t think it would make a difference either.  People are not making decisions on what is good for them in the long term when they decide to go hiking on a mountain, out of bounds, in the winter.  That is certainly not to say these folks don&#039;t care about themselves - it is more to say that I don&#039;t see a monetary attachment to being rescued being at all effective in deterring people from what they love to do.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with you here, I think banning is over the top.  Education and responsibility is the answer.  I don&#8217;t think people should have to pay for their own search and rescue though &#8211; I don&#8217;t think it would make a difference either.  People are not making decisions on what is good for them in the long term when they decide to go hiking on a mountain, out of bounds, in the winter.  That is certainly not to say these folks don&#8217;t care about themselves &#8211; it is more to say that I don&#8217;t see a monetary attachment to being rescued being at all effective in deterring people from what they love to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Karl Woll</title>
		<link>http://www.vancityallie.com/2009/01/06/humans-take-risks-because-thats-what-we-do/comment-page-1/#comment-1263</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Woll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vancityallie.com/?p=268#comment-1263</guid>
		<description>Getting a coffee at the local cafe this morn I saw this headline on today&#039;s 24. &quot;Ski out of bounds go directly to jail?&quot;

haha this is getting nuts.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Getting a coffee at the local cafe this morn I saw this headline on today&#8217;s 24. &#8220;Ski out of bounds go directly to jail?&#8221;</p>
<p>haha this is getting nuts.</p>
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		<title>By: vxla</title>
		<link>http://www.vancityallie.com/2009/01/06/humans-take-risks-because-thats-what-we-do/comment-page-1/#comment-1261</link>
		<dc:creator>vxla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 16:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vancityallie.com/?p=268#comment-1261</guid>
		<description>As many other skiers have mentioned elsewhere, beacons were often the norm even up until the 1990s, inbounds. Part of the problem is the growing popularity of winter sports (probably since things are more accessible to those who do not live in convenient proximity to mountains) and the lack of knowledge and training.

I&#039;m all for people being able to make informed decisions and take their own risk, but they should (must?) be trained on how to do so, have the right equipment, and shoulder a bit of the cost...perhaps through BC insurance or something.

It&#039;s a slippery slope, indeed.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As many other skiers have mentioned elsewhere, beacons were often the norm even up until the 1990s, inbounds. Part of the problem is the growing popularity of winter sports (probably since things are more accessible to those who do not live in convenient proximity to mountains) and the lack of knowledge and training.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for people being able to make informed decisions and take their own risk, but they should (must?) be trained on how to do so, have the right equipment, and shoulder a bit of the cost&#8230;perhaps through BC insurance or something.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a slippery slope, indeed.</p>
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